KEN ROSENTHAL MOVES THE BALL FORWARD: OPINES ON THE PHONY "SAVES" STAT

Ken Rosenthal said during the Fox Phillies-Braves game on Saturday, May 26, 2007, 5:54PM ET:

• "THERE ARE TOO MANY MANAGERS WHO MANAGE ACCORDING TO THE 'SAVE' RULE."

Which is a polite way of saying managers are in the business of giving "gifts" or "cookies" before other priorities. Way to speak about THIS MEDIA-HYPED RUNAWAY TRAIN. Maybe others will have the guts to take on the subject that has gotten way out of hand, ie "Give him the Cy for his Total Saves Stat." The discussion occurred surrounding Brett Myers' being used "FOR MORE THAN 1 INNING" by Charlie Manuel. Joe Girardi avoided the controversy, just saying it depends on how deep your bullpen is and what the game calls for. Well, that's true, but a couple of teams have used the "Saves" stat as a promotional and awards device FIRST.

• (Load up those 1 out saves or no runners in scoring position or no more than one inning, or high pressure pennant race performances, etc.)
• P.S. UH-OH, ESPN MUST BE PISSED--JON MILLER IS HYPING THE B-JESUS OUT THE THE SAVE STAT TONIGHT ON THE INDIANS-TIGERS GAME, AND JOE MORGAN IS JOINING IN, MENTIONING CONCURRENT, A-HEM...AWARDS VOTING....MAN, WHEN YOU 'DEFINE THE DAILY DISCOURSE' AS ESPN DOES, THE TRUTH DOESN'T HAVE A CHANCE. ESPECIALLY WHEN BASEBALL CONSUMERS DON'T CARE.

Update: Rosenthal's comment on Saturday afternoon brought out the ESPN guns on Sunday night, now Hoffman's precision PR machine puts out a long AP sports article on his next "Total Save Stat" benchmark. Meaningless, utterly without context, and an insult to several people, notably Lee Smith about whom they make a misleading reference. They do it because they can.

• This is an embarrassment. There is no comparison between Lee Smith and Hoffman. Any moron can see that. ie, Lee Smith was not a compiler of a cheap stat. He worked much harder than that.

UPDATE****THE HOFFMAN/ESPN PR MACHINE CONTINUES WITHOUT SHAME, COMING UP CURIOUSLY AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME (6/1/07) WITH ANOTHER ESPN PHONY POLL. POLLS ALLOW YOU TO MAKE UP 'NEWS'--THIS IS WHAT THE TV NETWORKS DO CONSTANTLY TO ADVANCE A CAUSE OF THEIR OWN. THEN THEY CLAIM IT'S NEWS. SO CRASNICK'S NAME GOES ON TOP OF AN ESPN POLL ABOUT HOFFMAN GOING TO THE HALL OF FAME. "Surveying Hoffman's Hall of Fame Case." MUCH FLUFF FROM THE PEOPLE THEY POLLED, HOLLOW, INDEFENSIBLE. One voter ESPN digs up (amazingly) elevates Hoffman by comparing him to Mariano then states a "belief" about Rivera that is factually impossible. John Delcos, the "believer" already has a track record on paper of minimizing Rivera in 2005:

""Wagner: I'm No Mo," by John Delcos, Westchester Journal News

I'm mainly posting this article to show another example of SHODDY PERFORMANCE BY BASEBALL AWARDS VOTERS. John Delcos, an awards voter who voted this year (2005) for the AL MVP, reports comparisons between Billy Wagner and Mariano Rivera. In the article, Delcos, who's covered the Yankees since 1998, says Rivera "has had 32 playoff saves." False. Rivera has 34 playoff saves. Any so-called baseball writer should get it right, but this is even a local guy who gets it wrong. Maybe Delcos doesn't care." (Posted on this blog, 11/23/05).

• This is the John Delcos bio from his current job:

"John Delcos enters his second season of covering the Mets for The Journal News after eight seasons on the Yankees beat. Prior to coming to New York, John covered the Baltimore Orioles, Cleveland Browns and Cleveland Indians." From LoHud Mets Blog, 6/6/07.

• (Any news organization considers it normal to give its reporters' backgrounds. This hasn't been done in billion-dollar baseball news to any degree because it's been a monopoly. I give baseball media backgrounds when I can find them, which isn't too often. HERE'S THE TWISTED, BOILERPLATE TEARFUL SPIN ON HOFFMAN POPULARIZED BY THE MEDIA MACHINE, SAID HERE BY DELCOS:

""There's no question Trevor Hoffman gets my Hall of Fame vote. I covered the Yankees for eight years and got to see Mariano Rivera on a regular basis." *********(NOW GET READY FOR THIS--GET THE VIOLINS)**********

• "Unfortunately for Hoffman and other relievers of his era, they are compared to Rivera's body of work in the playoffs. There's no denying Rivera's greatness, but had the Yankees had Hoffman instead, I believe they would have been just as successful.''

-- John Delcos, The Journal News (New York)

• Delcos, Hoffman had surgery in 2003 and missed almost the entire season. Mariano Rivera's 3 consecutive scoreless innings in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, A TIE GAME, couldn't have been done by anyone recovering from surgery. Seeking "regular season?" Hoffman never in his life did what Rivera did in Sept. 2005. Delcos' own future career is in the hands of baseball writers and ESPN, and his words are exactly what they want to hear. I've documented much on this topic--I apologize for so much proof and evidence.
• AND DELCOS SAYS 'OTHER RELIEVERS OF THIS ERA' HAVE BEEN SLIGHTED TOO BECAUSE OF THIS TERRIBLE PROBLEM. WHAT OTHER RELIEVERS, DELCOS? ESPN ADVERTISERS SHOULD BOYCOTT ESPN FOR TARNISHING HALL OF FAME STANDARDS. WHY SHOULD THE HALL OF FAME REMAIN IN EXISTENCE IN THE INTERNET AGE? INCORRECT INFORMATION IS TOO EASILY ACCEPTED AS TRUTH.(sm)

• ***I CHECKED OUT THE READER COMMENTS TO THE ESPN "POLL," AND MOST THOUGHT IT WAS A JOKE. THE ESPN GUYS NEED MEDICAL ATTENTION IF THEY REALLY TAKE THEMSELVES THIS SERIOUSLY. HERE ARE THE COMMENTS:

• crazyed17 (6/1/2007 at 8:35 AM)

The closer position is now a joke...and racking up loads of saves is not impressive anymore. Gossage needs to get recognized before any of these other closers, including Rivera. I believe the closer should be used as your shutdown guy when the game is on the line. They are used literally as the closer, which is overly hyped. If it were up to me...I would bring in my 'closer' even during the 6th or 7th inning, if the fate of the game depended on it.

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ElBlakeman16 (6/1/2007 at 12:15 PM)

While Hoffman has been dominant and a clear HOFer, it should always be mentioned that Rivera's a step above. You can't discount two crucial facts, which are either not-mentioned or under-emphasized in the article: 1) Rivera's the all-time leader for pitchers in postseason games played (73) with 34 more saves; and 2) all of Rivera's saves have come in the American League, and during the heart of the steroids era, rather than in the weaker National League. Comparing those two to Gossage and the other historical (pre-1990's) closers is tough, but Rivera's been a cut above Hoffman throughout his career. I do, however, agree that the Yankees may have been just as successful with Hoffman as closer and not Rivera, but we'll never know. Hoffman wasn't given those opportunities, and did blow a few of the meager ones he had.

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Avielth (6/1/2007 at 3:49 PM)

Whether or not you think Hoffman deserves to be in the Hall, which I personally believe he does, Gossage should be in there. Gossage was one of the most dominating players of his time and the type of player the hall is suppose to celebrate. Who cares about the order at this point in time...just because they screwed it up the first time doesn't mean you need to take first round consideration from Hoffman. The hall voters collectively have questionable judgement at best, so who knows what will happen...

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brentuga1 (6/1/2007 at 4:36 PM)

Calling Jayson Stark - did you see that total? 58 of 62 writers consider him a first ballot hall of famer? That's pretty loud and clear proof that he is not underrated, but instead valued properly or overvalued.

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JoeMesa2007 (6/1/2007 at 4:57 PM)

So now it's Hall of Fame time if you're the all time leader in saves. What about all those years Lee Smith was the all time leader? Why didn't that count? If Hoffman should be in the Hall of Fame then so does Lee Smith. I think it's a travesty that Smith is so overlooked when he was the all time saves leader for a quite a few years before Hoffman finally passed him. Relievers are starting to get Hall of Fame recogntion, yet the guy who held the all time record up until just last year is ignored? It's a joke!!

INGY_BINGLEBOP (6/1/2007 at 8:12 PM)

WELL, JAYSON STARK'S OPINION ON TREVOR HOFFMAN IS PRETTY POINTLESS ANYWAY. AT LEAST THEY PUT HIS AS THE VERY LAST ONE IN THE ARTICLE. WHATEVER STARK SAYS, I TEND TO EITHER BELIEVE THE OPPOSITE, OR WAIT FOR A MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE WRITER TO GIVE A CONFIRMATION. EVER NOTICE THAT MOST OF HIS "RUMBLINGS & GRUMBLINGS" ARE THINGS THAT NEVER HAPPEN?

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jts_cornershop (6/2/2007 at 10:49 AM)

I think that Mariano Rivera is more of a slam dunk than Trevor Hoffman for Cooperstown. Granted, Hoffman didn't get the postseason chances that Rivera did, since the Yankees ALWAYS made the postseason while the Padres anemic offense often kept them out of the playoffs, but their regular season stats are very similar. So Rivera's postseason success gives him a notch up. But Hoffman still does deserve to be in the HOF. But like some of the writers said... Rich Gossage and Lee Smith deserve to be there too, and hopefully this is the year that the BBWA and the veterans committee decide to correct that injustice. Remember, the Goose was also a starter early in his career (like Eck) and changed to closer midway through. So if Eckersley can make the Hall, Gossage should too.

moleman92106 (6/2/2007 at 11:54 AM)

As a Padres fan, i can say that the ninth inning is over when Hoffie is in. And you can pick out a team or two each year that unravels because of ninth inning nonsense. That CAN ruin a team's morale. That said, Goose needs to get in and the contemporary closer role is a joke. I want to see the old breed of closer who can pich 2-3 innings (a guy like Scot Shields) and close things up. Although being a closer may now be joke, no one seems to be able to do it good for more than 3-4 years. Contradiction? MLB should probably tweak the rule, like the inherited runners rule with 1 out or 2 outs. The game is not really on the line when you have a 3 run lead in the NL.

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vinman14 (6/4/2007 at 10:22 AM)

I believe Gossage, Smith, Hoffman and Rivera should all be in! Please, I would put in a closer before I would even think of putting in a DH. Look at all these closers that do it for a few years, and then fall apart. These guys have done it for their carreers, and they should be honored for it.

My solution as always, REMOVE VOTING ON BASEBALL AWARDS FROM ALL MEDIA.

• ANOTHER UPDATE: What a coincidence, another article blurring the truth of the Hoffman case from Larry Stone of the Seattle Times on May 29, 2007. THIS BASEBALL AWARDS VOTER PUSHES THE FOLLOWING INTO VOTERS'/READERS' MINDS TALKING ABOUT BASEBALL "RECORDS:"
• THE 'TOTAL SAVE' STAT IS EQUIVALENT TO THE HOMERUN AND THE TOTAL HITS STAT. THIS IS FALSE, AS THE TOTAL SAVE STAT HAS MANY MORE VARIABLES AND RELIES ON A MANAGER AND AN OWNER'S WILLINGNESS TO SELL THEMSELVES FOR A FAKED PRIZE. AGAIN THE WRITER WANTS TO SELL YOU THAT MARIANO AND HOFFMAN ARE IN ANY WAY SIMILAR. WHICH IS A JOKE.

As an above commenter noted, the Hoffman "saves campaign" has cheapened the real work involved in more complicated saves. The Eric Gagne "saves campaign" of a few years ago did the same. ESPN has mega-hyped both of these.

• ANOTHER UPDATE****JUNE 8, 2007****THE BULLIES CONTINUE THE RELENTLESS CAMPAIGN FOR HOFFMAN AND THE FAKE COOKIE STAT:

BUSTER OLNEY Hoffman saves items for Hall Updated: 6/8/07

• SUGGESTION to all ESPN ADVERTISERS: CANCEL YOUR ADVERTISING. THE HALL OF FAME HAS BEEN TARNISHED BY THIS CAMPAIGN.

"Have" a Save ".... ...Have a Manager & a Franchise who... On "having" saves, the LA Times' Bill Shaikin adds to the fraud 6/10/07--why not, there's big money in it:

• "No one else has 500 saves. Mariano Rivera could save 40 games this year and 40 more next year, and he'd still fall short of 500.***

Rivera has a fastball, at least. Hoffman blows no one away. He dominates in his own way, making him the perfect anchor for the Padres' bullpen. The Padres' bullpen dominates in its own way. This is the best bullpen in the major leagues, and it's not even close."

• THE ENTIRE BASEBALL INDUSTRY FROM MLB/ESPN ON DOWN, A MULTI BILLION DOLLAR SLEDGE HAMMER, ARE ALL UNITED TO DENY MARIANO RIVERA THE RECOGNITION HE LONG AGO DESERVED. I'VE DOCUMENTED THIS COUNTLESS TIMES ON THIS BLOG. THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY CAN. WITHOUT A TWINGE OF CONSCIENCE. BECAUSE HE'S THE GREATEST YANKEE IN DECADES--ALSO DOCUMENTED. SHAIKIN, WITH 80 MORE REGULAR SEASON SAVES, HE'D HAVE 534, but THAT WOULDN'T BE THE REASON HE'S BETTER. UNLIKE YOU, WE'RE NOT MORONS, AND WE'RE NOT BUYING YOUR PHONY COOKIE SAVE STAT.

YOU DENY HIS 34 POST SEASON SAVES, THE MOST GRUELING, HIS 112 2/3 INNINGS OF WORK OVER 12 CONSECUTIVE POST SEASONS. BECAUSE YOU CAN. YOU'RE A CHEAP FRAUD, EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN'T VOTE ON BASEBALL AWARDS FROM THE LA TIMES, IT ONLY TAKES A FEW OF YOU TO KEEP THE BILLION DOLLAR ROTTEN SYSTEM GOING.

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